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 Eli Roth hate

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relauby

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PostSubject: Re: Eli Roth hate   Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:29 pm

I got the impression that Tarantino was boosting his own ego the first time I saw it, and I knew absolutely nothing going in. I remember it really bugging me for a while too.
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IAKO



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PostSubject: Re: Eli Roth hate   Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:25 pm

The Dude wrote:
I make my point based on the fact that when I first saw the film, I didn't see any correlation between the last line and Tarantino's ego. I suppose you could rip me for not paying close enough attention to notice the little details, but that's because I was more interested in what the characters were saying and doing than trying to make real-world connections. Ergo, I didn't find any evidence of Tarantino lauding his own work, because I wasn't looking for any.

I didn't make the correlation when I first saw Inglourious Basterds either, but I'm sure plenty of people did without looking for it (like Relauby). And maybe if nobody had told me, I would have noticed it after re-watching it. Also, if you start analyzing the movie it probably hits you right in the face (as well as all of the references Tarantino makes).
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The Original Greaser Bob

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PostSubject: Re: Eli Roth hate   Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:10 am

I Am a Knock Off wrote:
Also, if you start analyzing the movie it probably hits you right in the face (as well as all of the references Tarantino makes).
Which references?
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IAKO



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PostSubject: Re: Eli Roth hate   Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:37 am

Just movie references and such, stuff you might miss if you're not actively "analyzing" every scenes.
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The Original Greaser Bob

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PostSubject: Re: Eli Roth hate   Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:09 am

I Am a Knock Off wrote:
Just movie references and such, stuff you might miss if you're not actively "analyzing" every scenes.
Well yeah, Tarantino rarely puts a scene in one of his movies where he isn't referencing something. I thought you meant references to himself being awesome.
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OriginalHorndog

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PostSubject: Re: Eli Roth hate   Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:59 pm

It's really interesting that Brad and Eli's opinions overlap frequently, like sharing the exact same opinion on the movie Pieces. I strongly disagree that Eli Roth has no talent. Ed Wood had very little talent, but still made entertaining movies. Uwe Boll is the director that I would consider coming the closest to having zero talent, and Brad likes Boll's movies, and gave a very convincing defense of Boll as a director, and, altogether, I don't think Uwe Boll has zero talent. House of the Dead is bad, but it was mostly entertaining.

I don't like Michael Bay's movies, but he's not untalented, either. I say that in spite of the fact that I just recently was forced to watch most of Transformers 2 and I have no qualms in qualifying it as one of the worst movies I've ever sat through (and, believe me, this is a completely unbiased opinion, because I have no interest in anything to do with Transformers). But I still don't think Bay has no talent. Bay, Boll and Wood have little talent, but none of them are untalented.

Another one I'd like to mention is a guy named Andy Milligan. His films are much, much worse than Wood, Bay or Boll, and I still don't think that the guy was untalented, despite his movies being bad. I could go through a lot of these, but I don't think that I have to. I just wanted to make it clear that I'm not defending Eli Roth because I like his movies.

I've seen Roth's movies, and I like them just fine. I saw Brad's movie Cheap and I liked it just fine. Quentin Tarantino gets mentioned a lot as a filmmaker who supports and likes Eli's work, and David Lynch is another one. I enjoy the movies Lynch and Tarantino make more than I enjoy Eli Roth's movies, although Inland Empire is excessively long and not the most rewatchable movie I've seen.

I don't agree that Roth's characters are not engaging. I was interested in the characters in Cabin Fever. I was interested in the characters in Hostel. I liked the Jay Hernandez character. I wanted to see Roth's take on the Stephen King novel Cell - it sounded like a good movie. I don't superficially enjoy everything that I watch, as noted above. It's endearing to me when someone is hated, that the common denominator rejects them, that they're an outcast of sorts. Roth's films being successful against popular thought is kind of a win for the freaks, and that's something I can applaud.
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Mondo a Go-Go

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PostSubject: Re: Eli Roth hate   Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:10 am

OriginalHorndog wrote:

Another one I'd like to mention is a guy named Andy Milligan. His films are much, much worse than Wood, Bay or Boll, and I still don't think that the guy was untalented, despite his movies being bad. I could go through a lot of these, but I don't think that I have to. I just wanted to make it clear that I'm not defending Eli Roth because I like his movies.
I've never understood the Milligan hate. I thought The Ghastly Ones was fun in the same vein as Blood Feast as the like. Not as good, but I'd watch it again.
OriginalHorndog wrote:

It's endearing to me when someone is hated, that the common denominator rejects them, that they're an outcast of sorts. Roth's films being successful against popular thought is kind of a win for the freaks, and that's something I can applaud.
I might be misunderstanding you, but I think there's a difference between having a character who's an outcast hated by the film's characters (see: Times Square, The Bird with the Crystal Plumage, Glen or Glenda?) and characters hated by the audience. I just can't connect with Roth's characters; they just act like dicks. What makes Horror such a fascinating genre is that it's basically stories of good versus evil, but unlike Fairy Tales, Horror doesn't necessarily have the good triumph. That's where suspense comes in. If you know there's no conflict, there's no point. Roth and his defenders tend to justify the obnoxiousness of the characters by saying that it makes their deaths "more satisfying." Aside from that being a generally disturbing concept ("satisfying death"? Calling Ted Bundy...), it doesn't work. You still have to spend a movie with these people. If you just want them offed immediately, it makes the movie drag. Nor is it really a convention of the 80s horror that Roth insists he's paying homage to. Even in the worse slashers, the characters aren't obnoxious, they're just kind of stupid and bland. In the better ones, they're clever and brave.

Then we have the randomness. My taste in horror leans heavily towards the late-70s/early-80s Italian supernatural school, where you can through tons of increasingly bizarre and frightening imagery at the audience because the gates of Hell are open/a witch is in the basement/it's a giallo. So I like my horror with a good dose of weirdness. But those movies (Suspiria, Inferno, Anything Fulci did with zombies) set themselves up in a surreal framework, and no one comments on the surreality, so it ends up operating like a dream. It comes out of nowhere in Roth's films, so it just feels labored and pointless. That's compounded by the fact that the films are made to feel drawn out (not suspenseful), as explained above. I guess it just disappoints me that a guy who seems to know his genre films just can't make one for the life of him.

As for Tarantino dialogue vs Roth dialogue, Tarantino is quirky and realistic. Roth is cliche and douchey. Rant over, carry on.
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PostSubject: Re: Eli Roth hate   Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:32 am

Unrelated to Eli Roth, but...

Mondo a Go-Go wrote:
Roth and his defenders tend to justify the obnoxiousness of the characters by saying that it makes their deaths "more satisfying." Aside from that being a generally disturbing concept ("satisfying death"? Calling Ted Bundy...), it doesn't work.

I'm totally with you on that one, never understood the concept of rooting for the obnoxious/bitchy/douchebag characters to die (although, I don't agree with you on that 80s slashers victims weren't obnoxious). These kind of characters are annoying, yes, but that's not like its enough of a reason to wish they died, someone really have to deserve some kind of comeuppance for me to be wishing that (and usually in slashers they don't really). The few slashers I like have very relatable and likeable characters (that's why I think Friday the 13th Part 2 is the best of the series). Although, I have to admit wishing characters would die in A Nightmare on Elm Street 3, 4, and 5, but that had more to do with the mixture of how annoying most of them were AND the fact that I wanted these films to end as soon as possible (6, I liked some characters and you can't help but love Yaphet Kotto even in shitty roles).

Mondo a Go-Go wrote:
Then we have the randomness. My taste in horror leans heavily towards the late-70s/early-80s Italian supernatural school, where you can through tons of increasingly bizarre and frightening imagery at the audience because the gates of Hell are open/a witch is in the basement/it's a giallo. So I like my horror with a good dose of weirdness. But those movies (Suspiria, Inferno, Anything Fulci did with zombies) set themselves up in a surreal framework, and no one comments on the surreality, so it ends up operating like a dream.

I wished everybody understood that. People bitching about logic in Fulci's horror films drive me crazy!
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Brakywaki

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PostSubject: Re: Eli Roth hate   Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:09 am

I've never quite understood the hate for Eli Roth either. I wouldn't call him a godsend or anything but he makes the exact kind of films I miss in this day and age: the mostly brainless splatter flick. I enjoyed Cabin Fever for the numerous homages to films of the past (even going so far as to remake some of the fantastic music from Last House on the Left with the help of [I can't remember if it's] David Hess or his son), Hostel didn't do a whole lot for me the first time, but on later viewings, the second half of it really turns into a damn fine revenge flick. I have nothing but good vibes on the second Hostel, probably because I got to see a sneak preview of it for free before the official release and even meet Eli himself who, whether you like his films or not, is one of the most laid back and cool guys in the industry. I also legitimately found his Rotten Fruit short films (on the Cabin Fever DVD) and Thanksgiving to be pretty damn hilarious.

I just can't think of many more polarizing figures in horror right now. Maybe I like his films for the simple fact that in the same time where we were seeing crappy PG-13 horror and bad remakes of good Asian films (amongst many other problems), Eli showed up and was like "HEY GUYS REMEMBER TITS AND GORE?" and I was like "NO PLEASE REMIND ME."

And he did.

But yeah, film quality aside, I respect his appreciation and knowledge of film, how he clawed his way through the Troma basement and (scarier than ANYTHING he could ever film) Barbra Streisand. I just dig the dude and would kill to just hang out with him for a bit. Gifted filmmaker or not, I love the shit out of his genre tastes.
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The Original Greaser Bob

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PostSubject: Re: Eli Roth hate   Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:24 am

You know, looking back, I do regret some of the harsher things I said about Roth. In real life, he does seem like a nice enough guy, and if I ever met him, I probably would like him as a person. But I just can't like his movies. I tried.
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OriginalHorndog

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PostSubject: Re: Eli Roth hate   Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:00 am

Mondo a Go-Go wrote:
OriginalHorndog wrote:

Another one I'd like to mention is a guy named Andy Milligan. His films are much, much worse than Wood, Bay or Boll, and I still don't think that the guy was untalented, despite his movies being bad. I could go through a lot of these, but I don't think that I have to. I just wanted to make it clear that I'm not defending Eli Roth because I like his movies.
I've never understood the Milligan hate. I thought The Ghastly Ones was fun in the same vein as Blood Feast as the like. Not as good, but I'd watch it again.

I don't hate Milligan. The one movie I saw of his, Bloodthirsty Butchers, wasn't that horrible, just technically incompetent.

Mondo a Go-Go wrote:
OriginalHorndog wrote:

It's endearing to me when someone is hated, that the common denominator rejects them, that they're an outcast of sorts. Roth's films being successful against popular thought is kind of a win for the freaks, and that's something I can applaud.
I might be misunderstanding you, but I think there's a difference between having a character who's an outcast hated by the film's characters (see: Times Square, The Bird with the Crystal Plumage, Glen or Glenda?) and characters hated by the audience.

Yeah, you are misunderstanding me, I wasn't referring to his characters, I was referring to Roth himself.
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RandyPan

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PostSubject: Re: Eli Roth hate   Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:17 pm

Eli Roth is a decent director. A decent director. I do agree that his screenwriting sucks, but his movies look good.
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PostSubject: Re: Eli Roth hate   Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:40 pm

Really, I think if he would get someone else to write his scripts for him, he could be awesome, because everything else about his movies I like.
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PostSubject: Re: Eli Roth hate   Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:41 pm

Oh, I've already been here.
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Frank Rizzo

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PostSubject: Re: Eli Roth hate   Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:39 am

You *really* needed to do three posts to make those points? You couldn't just condense it all to one?
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PostSubject: Re: Eli Roth hate   Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:41 am

No, I just forgot I'd made that first post.
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Frank Rizzo

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PostSubject: Re: Eli Roth hate   Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:17 am

Wow.....just wow....Rolling Eyes 
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